Talk:言う

Is 言う really a heteronym? Millie 04:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Nope, as far as I can recollect. --Tohru 04:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Should いう or ゆう be used for pronunciation? Or both?

--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

This is ユー which is standard. The spelling in kana and the standard prononciation don't match, like with the particle は.

Source: 現代仮名遣い－歴史的仮名遣い対照表

Agency for Cultural Affairs https://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/sisaku/joho/joho/kijun/naikaku/gendaikana/huhyo_yu.html Maidodo (talk) 02:59, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, this is one of the (to my knowledge) rare cases where kana spelling and pronunciation don't match. Unlike は however, where the mismatch has etymological / sound change reasons, イウ→ユー is "merely" euphonic, more like センセイ vs. センセー (which are both standard pronunciations of 先生 though, at least according to the notational notes in my edition of 新明解日本語アクセント辞典). Using both イウ and ユー seems reasonable. I'd, by the way, say that kana spelling and pronunication do match in cases like おう→オー, since "o" lengthening by "u" is systematic (just saying because they are included in the list behind the Agency for Cultural Affairs link). --2A02:8108:50BF:C694:3DAF:3E79:47CF:28B2 21:50, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, if you read the full 現代仮名遣い legal document, it is said that *e+i may be pronounced as a long <e> or [ei]. See the section 付記 here. https://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/sisaku/joho/joho/kijun/naikaku/gendaikana/honbun_dai2.html

For 言う, only ユー is mentioned. But in reality it may be pronounced as イウ by some. I believe if you ask native speakers, some may tell you it is イウ but they would pronounce it ユー in real speech without noticing it. The reason is that this point is not really taught at school. For *o+u, I agree. By the way for *o+o the text is less vague saying that this would be a long <o> or 2 <o>, depending on the cases. Maidodo (talk) 23:18, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

The difference between “話す,” “語る,” “述べる,” and “言う”

If you have looked up the terms “話す,” “語る,” “述べる” and “言う,” you will notice that their translations seem to be similar. That begs the question of what the difference is between the four. I have done some research and this is what I have found.

—————————————————————

Differences between “話す,” “語る,” “述べる,” and “言う,” their meanings and usages, and the distinctions between them

話す means “To voice words.”

It will be easy to understand if you rephrase it as “会話” (“to have a conversation”).

語る means “To talk about something logically.”

It will be easy to understand if you rephrase it as “朗読” (“to recite”).

述べる means “To talk about ideas, opinions, etc., out loud.”

It will be easy to understand if you rephrase it as “陳述” (“to make a statement”).

言う means “To utter some kind of sound.”

It will be easy to understand if you rephrase it as “告げる” (“to announce”).

“話す,” “語る” and “言う” mean to voice it, and “述べる” has both voice and writing it in writing.

話す is to say words to a person with your voice. Since the Chinese character of “話” is composed of “舌” (“tongue”) and “言” (“word”), “話す” means to voice words.

For example, in addition to using it with “今何が起きたのか話してみなさい” (“Tell me what just happened.”), “あの人の話は長くて困る” (“That person’s story is long and troublesome.”), etc., you also use it in the sense of foreign languages, circumstances, etc., with “英語を話すことはありますか” (“Is there any chance that you speak English?”), “彼は良く話が分かる人だ” (“He is a person who understands the circumstances well.”) and “意地の張り合いばかりしないで話せば分るでしょう” (“You will probably understand if you just discuss without having a clash of the egos.”).

語る is to talk systematically and logically. 語る means to talk about something in an organized way, such as “物語を語る” (“Tell a story.”), “語り部が災害の悲惨さを語る” (“A storyteller tells the misery of disaster.”), “とつとつと語る” (“To speak in a halting way.”) and “昔の出来事をゆっくりと語り始めた” (“I slowly began to talk about events of the past”).

In addition, you use it with “事件の経緯を正確に語りなさい” (“Describe the whole story of the incident exactly.”) and “真実を語りましょう” (“Let’s tell the truth.”) deriving from the meaning of explaining, and idiomatically, you use it with “語るに落ちた” (“Let the cat out of the bag.”), “語るに足る” (“To be worth confiding in.”), etc.

述べる is to orally voice your own ideas, circumstances, opinions, etc. or to submit them in writing. “述べる” has words such as “口述記録” (“oral record”), “陳述書” (“written statement”), “前述” (“as described previously”), “論述” (“dissertation”) and “記述” (“description”).

It is about summarizing something and talking systematically so that it is understandable, not merely about talking, for example, it is to say things like “I myself have a situation like this, so I want you to do it in this way,” or to express the fact that there is an author or creator in a work, paper, etc.

“言う” is to vocalize. “言う” means to vocalize some sort of thing.

You use it with “何か言っているがはっきり聞き取れない” (“You’re saying something, but I can’t hear you clearly.”), “あなたの言うことは分る” (“I understand what you say.”), “ひとこと言ってから出かけて下さい” (“Please leave after you say a brief comment.”), “猫が一晩上ギャーギャー言っていた” (“My cat was making caterwauling noises all night long.”), “はっきり言いなさい” (“Say it clearly.”), etc.

Moreover, other usages have “親の言うことが聞けないのか” (“Can’t you listen to what your parents say?”), “窓がガタガタと言っている” (“My window is making rattling noises.”), “次のように言う” (“To say it as follows.”), etc.

The above is an article translated from this website: https://chigai.site/4097/

I hope that helps! Wise Bridges Fool Walls (talk) 15:08, 25 September 2022 (UTC)