Talk:academic institution

RFD discussion: October 2017–July 2018

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academic institution

academic + institution? Pinging the creator, @Dan Polansky. --Barytonesis (talk) 23:40, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Per the entry, the point seems to be that this applies to "higher education" (e.g. university) but not to something like high school, even though that is also academic. Equinox ◑ 23:55, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Keep DCDuring (talk) 04:00, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

• I created that in Feb 2008, at which time I was a bit over 1 year Wiktionary-old, and I don't know what I thought at the time. In any case, above, Equinox makes a good point. On a different note, from the definition ("educational institution ...", a research-only institution does not pass as "academic", right? I think the definition would benefit from exemplification and counter-exemplification. I don't know whether the definition is right; I took it from WP, as indicated in the creation edit summary. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:54, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Move to RfV. It is not clear to me that the English-speaking community as a whole excludes high schools from the definition. I have found uses that exclude trade schools, but include "college-prep" high schools, some that include all high schools. I wouldn't be surprised to find definitions that excluded professional training programs, such as in business, engineering, law, nursing, teaching, and medicine. The use of the collocation seems quite flexible.

It may be difficult to find usage citations that unambiguously support a non-SoP definition. DCDuring (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I've heard this term used in regular parlance to mean a whole host of things: including high schools, excluding high schools, excluding everything except colleges, including trade and professional schools, excluding the same, etc. I've heard it include all schools even, and even administrative centres of education. There may be a slight tendency to favour colleges and universities above other academic institutions types of schools and academic centres with this term (I even unconsciously used it there in a broad sense), but it's nowhere near systematic, and therefore can only be SoP in my thinking. --SanctMinimalicen (talk) 12:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

If we can show that the term is sometimes used to include high schools, then documenting this in the entry is a lexicoservice to the user. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:00, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Move to RFV. --SanctMinimalicen (talk) 03:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

No consensus to delete; moving to RfV. bd2412 T 04:09, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

RFV discussion: July–September 2018

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academic institution

Per the discussion at RfD, can citations be found indicating a use of the phrase that is limited to institutions of higher education? bd2412 T 04:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

First, for terminology, higher education: "Education at university level or beyond" (I am a non-native and had to look it up, so for everyone's convenience.)

Second, W:Academic institution is an article that includes primary schools in the subject matter that it covers. May I plead that, whatever the definition as refined by search for attesting quotations, the entry is kept to provide clarity to the reader? Or is it obvious that a primary school is an academic institution? Or is it obvious that it is not? --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:45, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

RFV-resolved. I have added three cites that clearly use "academic institution" in a broader sense than just higher education. I have reworded the definition accordingly. Frankly, however, the result looks rather SOP to me. Transfer to RFD? Kiwima (talk) 22:57, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kiwima, I'm unstriking because it came here from RFD, where people wanted a specific sense cited. You modified the sense, and I agree that the result is SOP, but what was there before arguably wasn't, and that was what needed to be cited. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 23:05, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad. I got the purpose of this RFV the wrong way round. I have now cited the original sense. Kiwima (talk) 23:32, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kiwima: Thanks. Now I'm not sure what to do with the sense you added (currently #1)... do we want to keep it? I guess we could send it back to RFD to see how it shakes out, although that seems a little silly. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 23:44, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

We often include the more literal sense of a word if it is included for a metaphoric or idiomatic meaning. While I am not sure I would classify "academic institution" as metaphoric or idiomatic, it seems to me this is an analogous situation. It should be made clear that while some authors use the term for a tertiary institution, it is also (quite commonly!) used more broadly. Kiwima (talk) 23:52, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

We could use {{&lit}}. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 20:37, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

We could, and I considered it, but that puts in wording about "idiomatic" or "metaphoric" meaning, and is the tertiary education sense really idiomatic? Kiwima (talk) 21:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)