Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-European/h₁el-

Birds and deer

Should there be two different PIE words under h₁el-? The pages for Old Norse álka (“auk”) and Latin olor (“swan”) point to a PIE word h₁el- meaning a kind of bird. --Caoimhin (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

There are also various tree species which descend from the same root: English elm, Bulgarian елша (elša, “alder”). This points towards color association rather than to a specific kind of flora or fauna. Most likely, the root referred to bright brown or gray. Bezimenen (talk) 12:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, the meaning of waterbirds like the swan or goose is likely touching a general idea of a great animal (which geese and swans are as compared to other birds at the sea), as also because of the colour meaning “grey”. I list here the further words that Holzer, Georg (1989) Entlehnungen aus einer bisher unbekannten indogermanischen Sprache im Urslavischen und Urbaltischen (in German), Wien: Verlag der Österreichischen Akadamie der Wissenschaften, →ISBN, page 61 agreeing with Pokorny puts hither

• in addition to Proto-Germanic *alkǭ (“auk”) (probably not Swiss Wisselg and Birchilge, types of ducks, which must be assumed to be distorted from other words)
• and Latin olor (“swan”), Ancient Greek ἀλκυών (alkuṓn, “kingfisher”) (I add: some meanings of Arabic عُلْجُوم (ʕuljūm) which normally means a toad or male frog but had more wild meanings in antiquity)
• the Proto-Slavic plant name *olboda (“goosefoot”)
• Ancient Greek ἑλώριος (helṓrios, “stilt?”) if this is not a mistake for ἐρῳδιός (erōidiós, “heron”).
• Pokorny lists some Celtic words, Welsh alarch (“swan”) we have for this root, Middle Irish ela (“swan”), Old Cornish elerhc (“swan”).
• possibly Proto-Slavic *olbǫdь (“swan”), Proto-Germanic *albits (“swan”), more commonly put to *albʰós (“white”).

Presumably something must be added to this PIE page, since some attested language entries already refer hither, or they have to be relieved of this comparison if the material is too weak (bird names are probably less stable than the names of the greater mammals). But I am not able to make up Proto-Indo-European derived terms. @Victar maybe. Else this is the list to show for the other pages to argue that the links are too weak. Fay Freak (talk) 15:02, 14 March 2020 (UTC)