Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-Iranian/čáćšma

There currently seems to be no evidence that this would be Proto-Indo-Iranian and not simply Proto-Iranian? --Tropylium (talk) 18:23, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

@Tropylium: You're not wrong. This information was previously stored *čákšuš as its Iranian cognate, but I split them up, stranding both the Indo-Aryan and Iranian cognates on separate pages. In Hellenic, Italic, and Balto-Slavic, it is fairly common for us to leave intermediate pages with only one direct descendants, so I'm fine with this. What do you think, @Aryamanarora? —JohnC5 23:19, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

@JohnC5: It seems to be Iranian only to me, but since we know that it comes from PIE, it shouldn't hurt to leave it here until someone gets around to making the Proto-Iranian entry. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:05, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

The Vedic stem form would be *चक्ष्मन् (cakṣman) if it went into Indo-Aryan. [1] has something about that. google:caksman sanskrit has quiet a view hits but I don't have JSTOR. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:12, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora You can view the files here. Wyang (talk) 01:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang: Wow, thanks a lot! —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:18, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@JohnC5: [2] here it appears in the Vedas. I think that it is a derivative of this. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:30, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Seems plausible enough to mention. —JohnC5 01:37, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Wait, now that we have Skt. चाक्ष्म, would the PII word be čákšma? @Aryamanarora, JohnC5 माधवपंडित (talk) 08:16, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

*ḱs > *ĉš > kṣ is regular in Sanskrit. The proposed phonetic development I've seen is > *śš > *šš > *ṣṣ > *ṭṣ > kṣ, compareable also to e.g. *sḱ > *sĉ > *śś > *tś > cch.

Anyway, yes, a good addition. Normally "coming from PIE" would be enough to claim that a word existed in an intermediate like PII, but that was my point: we still do not have (evidence for) a PIE preform given for this particular formation. Lacking that and lacking Indic, this kind of a word could have been formed purely in Proto-Iranian on the basis of the verb root. --Tropylium (talk) 10:05, 24 May 2017 (UTC)