Reconstruction talk:Proto-Japonic/paimpi

Problematic reconstruction

This reconstruction is currently sitting at the troublesome spelling of pVmpV, moved here from an also-problematic papimi.

Modern Japanese and Ryukyuan dialectal variations pertaining to the word "snake", sometimes more specifically "venomous snake", include:

• ヘミ (hemi)
• ヘブ (hebu)
• ヘベ (hebe)
• ヘッ (he')
• ハビ (habi)
• ハベ (habe)
• ハム (hamu)
• ハメ (hame)
• バブ (babu)
• パプ (papu)
• ヒビ (hibi)
• ヒブ (hibu)
• ヘーブ (hēbu)
• ヘンビ (henbi)
• ヘンミ (henmi)

Historically, Old Japanese sources seem clear that the second syllable was /m/, with Japanese references holding that this later shifted to /b/.

As noted at the Gogen Yurai entry, some connection to 食む (hamu, “to bite”) seems likely. See also 蝮 (hami, “pit viper; venomous snake”), cited in 918 and apparently just the nominalization of hamu "to bite".

Given attested Middle Korean form ᄇᆡ얌 (poyyam), any connection there appears more tenuous, certainly more so than the modern form 뱀 (baem), which resemblance to OJP pe₂mi now seems more accidental. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Eirikr: Sources for your variations? Chuterix (talk) 02:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@Chuterix -- JLect lists a lot at https://www.jlect.com/search.php?r=%E8%9B%87&l=ryukyu&group=words, and lists more in the Etymology sections within the entries themselves, such as at https://www.jlect.com/entry/1212/hibi/. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 06:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@Eirikr: I could find fewer lists than what you listed:

• ひび (hibi)
• ひぶ (hibu)
• へーぶ (hēbu)
• へっ (he')
• へぶ (hebu)
• はぶ (habu)
• ぱｳﾞ (pav)

This seems like you've taken this from sources besides JLect. Chuterix (talk) 23:13, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

It's been long enough that I don't recall very clearly, but I think I might have also used findings from Gogen Yurai Jiten and Nihon Jiten.

The former includes this bit in their entry for 蛇:

しかし、ヘビの方言には、「ヘミ」「ヘブ」「ヘベ」「ハビ」「ハベ」「ハム」「ハメ」「バブ」「パプ」「ヒビ」などのほか、これら二音の中間に「ン」を挟んだ「ヘンビ」「ヘンミ」など数多くの呼称があり、

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)