Talk:περισπωμένη
Accentuation[edit]
@Sarri.greek: περισπωμέναι and περισπωμενῶν are the correct forms for a first-declension feminine noun. Paroxytone nouns of this class (e.g. ἀφάκη) don't retract the accent in the nom./voc. plural, even though theoretically they could (ἀφάκαι, not *ἄφακαι although the latter wouldn't violate the accent placement rules). And the genitive plural of first-declension feminine nouns is always -ῶν, because it's contracted from -ᾱ́ων/-ήων < *-āsōm (= Latin -ārum). But adjectives (including participles) of the 1st/2nd declension pattern don't follow those rules; the nom./voc. feminine plural of adjectives does retract the accent (e.g. ἅγιαι) and the fem. gen. pl. is the same as the masc. and neut. gen. pl. (e.g. ἁγίων). However, since περισπωμένη is a substantivized adjective, not an original noun, I actually don't know whether it gets declined like a "normal" noun or like an adjective. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:21, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for your answer @Mahagaja (I will read it again and again, to try understand). It is just that they sound ... so alien, so impossible, especially περισπωμενῶν. hhhhh... I will erase the inflection pages. --sarri.greek (talk) 09:32, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja, A non linguistic line of thought: the fact that a participle happens to become substantivized does not change its being, its character, its declension. It is always a participle. playing, as an actor, the role of a noun. But it is not a noun. --sarri.greek (talk) 09:38, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- So, these PoS titles, like title 'Noun' here. Are they supposed to refer to the grammatical type? or to the meaning/σημασία/role/ of a lemma? --sarri.greek (talk) 10:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- The way they function in a sentence. If they function as a subject or direct object or object of a preposition, and don't modify another noun, then they can be called a Noun in our entry. There are many examples at Citations:περισπωμένη; in the sentences there, περισπωμένη is a noun in all of them except "περισπωμένων δὲ ῥημάτων συζυγίαι εἰσὶ τρεῖς", where it's an adjective modifying ῥημάτων. But in "ἡ μὲν πρώτη ἐκφέρεται ἀπὸ τῆς πρώτης τῶν περισπωμένων, ὡς ἀπὸ τοῦ τιθῶ γέγονε τίθημι·" it's a noun (since it isn't modifying another noun) but clearly has the adjectival declension in -μένων, not -μενῶν. So that answers the question: substantivized adjectives are still inflected like adjectives. I'll fix the page accordingly. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- A! Μεγάλε @Mahagaja, I love you. --sarri.greek (talk) 10:41, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- The way they function in a sentence. If they function as a subject or direct object or object of a preposition, and don't modify another noun, then they can be called a Noun in our entry. There are many examples at Citations:περισπωμένη; in the sentences there, περισπωμένη is a noun in all of them except "περισπωμένων δὲ ῥημάτων συζυγίαι εἰσὶ τρεῖς", where it's an adjective modifying ῥημάτων. But in "ἡ μὲν πρώτη ἐκφέρεται ἀπὸ τῆς πρώτης τῶν περισπωμένων, ὡς ἀπὸ τοῦ τιθῶ γέγονε τίθημι·" it's a noun (since it isn't modifying another noun) but clearly has the adjectival declension in -μένων, not -μενῶν. So that answers the question: substantivized adjectives are still inflected like adjectives. I'll fix the page accordingly. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)