Talk:шоколад
Latest comment: 7 years ago by Cinemantique
@Cinemantique Hi. Do you have a reference on the standard pronunciation of the word? BTW, the woman who recorded the sound must be using spelling pronunciation, I think [ʂəkɐˈlat] is not a standard pronunciation but let me know if I'm wrong. Also @Benwing2, Wikitiki89 --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:30, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- @Atitarev Neither Avanesov nor Reznichenko mention anything that would suggest a pronunciation like [шеколад] (although both mention an optional partitive case form). Not in Ivanova. Benwing2 (talk) 02:01, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- Propretonic vowels are difficult to distinguish, but I'm pretty sure I say it with [ʂə-]. --WikiTiki89 02:14, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- Just like жале́ть (žalétʹ) шокола́д (šokolád) is normally pronounced with /ɨ/. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:24, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- жалеть is an anomaly. Most words with pretonic sybillant + а/о are pronounced with /ɐ/. Compare шаманить (šamanitʹ), шофёр (šofjór), etc. So it only makes sense to talk about this word specifically and not draw parallels to other unrelated words. Now I pronounce the first syllable of шоколад (šokolad) differently from the first syllable of широта (širota). If you pronounce them the same and you think others do as well, then we should have both pronunciations. --WikiTiki89 05:56, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- I only listed жалеть because it's in the same group as шоколад and different from шофёр and шаманить. I pronounce шоколад and жалеть with an /ɨ/ and шаманить and шофёр with an /ɐ/. User:Cinemantique disagrees with me quoting Avanesov, reverted my edits in ru.wikt. IMO, it needs further checking, I can't agree with Avanesov on this and we have seen some issues with his assessment in the past, at least we need both variants. Both шоколад and жалеть have two pronunciations at en.wikt, which is good. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:12, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- жалеть is an anomaly. Most words with pretonic sybillant + а/о are pronounced with /ɐ/. Compare шаманить (šamanitʹ), шофёр (šofjór), etc. So it only makes sense to talk about this word specifically and not draw parallels to other unrelated words. Now I pronounce the first syllable of шоколад (šokolad) differently from the first syllable of широта (širota). If you pronounce them the same and you think others do as well, then we should have both pronunciations. --WikiTiki89 05:56, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
- We have no source for this opinion. Avanesov think that [ʂəkɐˈlat] is a good pronunciation (see §5.3). In quick speech it could be pronounced [ʂkɐˈlat] - [ɨ] never could be lost ([vxɐˈdʲitʲ] instead of [vɨxɐˈdʲitʲ]). Possibly, [ə] in this word has an end close to [ɨ] because tongue goes back to pronounce [k].--Cinemantique (talk) 07:46, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
