Talk:խաղող
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Vahagn Petrosyan
Compare Hawrami ھاڵیْ (hāłɛ, “unripe grape”) (Someone claims it is from ھاڵ (hāł) in ھاڵ بیەیۆ (hāł biyayɔ, “набива́ть оско́мину (от незрелых фруктов и т. п.)”)). Compare also Hawrami ھاڵەژیْڵی (hāłažɛłī, “blossom of (unripe) grape”).--Calak (talk) 10:15, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Calak, the simple inner-Kurdish solution suggested by your source seems plausible. As for Armenian, according to newer sources it is certainly Hurro-Urartian.
- @Fay Freak,
{{R:uga:DUL-3}}under the entry ġll (II) derives Urartian ḫaluli from a Semitic word glossed as "wine". The formatting of that dictionary is arcane. Which of the Semitic words mentioned there means wine? --Vahag (talk) 13:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)- @Vahagn Petrosyan: So according to this dictionary in some text there has been written 𐎁𐎍𐎄 𐎙𐎍𐎍 (bld ġll, “land of the ġll”), after 𐎊𐎐 (yn), so 𐎊𐎐 𐎁𐎍𐎄 𐎙𐎍𐎍 (yn bld ġll, “wine of the land of the ġll”), and some people want are tempted to read the last word as “intoxication”, denoting a place that boozes you well, “мѣсто гдѣ можно хорошо буха́ть” or whatever. And according to Wilfred Watson (more clearly expressed in Aula Orientalis 2001 288) the meaning “produce, crop-yielding” of “ġll” (see غَلَّ (ḡalla), غَلّ (ḡall), often in غَلَّة (ḡalla); Biella’s dictionary which Watson cites has one occurence of the verb Old South Arabian 𐩶𐩡𐩡 (ġll, “to produce crops”), the Dict. of the North-West Semitic Inscriptions which Watson cites cites one occurence of a noun that seems to correspond to the Arabic غَلَّة (ḡalla) in a construct state 𐢗𐢑𐢑𐢞 and is professed by the DNWSI to be open to interpretation in the context; they could have also cited any Jewish Aramaic or Classical Syriac for the noun (wherefor in the CAL there is also another Nabataean cite; I don’t know why they pick out Nabataean and OSA inscriptions instead of the obvious choices)), is perhaps there in this Ugaritic occurence, and
{{R:uga:DUL-3}}suggests this meaning “produce” spawned the meaning “wine” in Urartian ḫaluli. None of the adduced languages have a wine-related meaning but the terms are fairly general; they seem to have made the leap because they found a fragment “wine of the land of the produce”. The vowel correspondence is also weak. On this occasion I also note that غَوْل (ḡawl) as in the Qurʾān 37, 47 or phrases like غَالَت الْخَمْرُ فُلَانًا (ḡālat al-ḵamru fulānan, “the wine seized someone, deprived him of his reason”) is to be juxtaposed with meanings like اِغْتَالَ (iḡtāla, “to assassinate”) and the similarity is of course coincidental. Fay Freak (talk) 15:01, 8 March 2019 (UTC)- @Fay Freak. Thanks. That was quite a leap on behalf of DUL. Still, it is an interesting proposal. --Vahag (talk) 07:49, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: So according to this dictionary in some text there has been written 𐎁𐎍𐎄 𐎙𐎍𐎍 (bld ġll, “land of the ġll”), after 𐎊𐎐 (yn), so 𐎊𐎐 𐎁𐎍𐎄 𐎙𐎍𐎍 (yn bld ġll, “wine of the land of the ġll”), and some people want are tempted to read the last word as “intoxication”, denoting a place that boozes you well, “мѣсто гдѣ можно хорошо буха́ть” or whatever. And according to Wilfred Watson (more clearly expressed in Aula Orientalis 2001 288) the meaning “produce, crop-yielding” of “ġll” (see غَلَّ (ḡalla), غَلّ (ḡall), often in غَلَّة (ḡalla); Biella’s dictionary which Watson cites has one occurence of the verb Old South Arabian 𐩶𐩡𐩡 (ġll, “to produce crops”), the Dict. of the North-West Semitic Inscriptions which Watson cites cites one occurence of a noun that seems to correspond to the Arabic غَلَّة (ḡalla) in a construct state 𐢗𐢑𐢑𐢞 and is professed by the DNWSI to be open to interpretation in the context; they could have also cited any Jewish Aramaic or Classical Syriac for the noun (wherefor in the CAL there is also another Nabataean cite; I don’t know why they pick out Nabataean and OSA inscriptions instead of the obvious choices)), is perhaps there in this Ugaritic occurence, and