Talk:շիճուկ

@Vahagn Petrosyan: I found also Kurdish (dial. CK, SK and Laki) sizik/g, Semnanî sizna which is close to Persian sajuk. Are you sure sajuk is an Armenian loanword? It is clear that Kurdish şûjî/û is from earlier *sujî/û (compare Kurdish şûjin ~ sûjin, cognate with Persian suzan). Now we have z ~ ž ~ ǰ alternation which is very common in Iranian languages (NW. ž/ǰ, SW. z). I think it is an Iranian word from earlier *sVč-, compare Old Arm. vačaṙ, MP. wāzār, Parth. wāžār, dial. Persian vājār. I am not sure if Old Ir. *srasč "to drip" (sr > s) is related or not.--Calak (talk) 17:48, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
While you are at it guys, Russian сычу́г (syčúg, “rennet-bag”) (Ukrainian сичу́г (syčúh), Belarusian сычу́г (syčúh)) awaits a solution. It is said in Vasmer and Черных to be from the Turkic sucuk etc. “sausage”, originally “tharm”, which I find difficult to connect since a maw is not a tharm, and even more difficult it would be to connect it to the Armenian “whey”. (Forget this claim of Трубачёв found in the Vasmer dictionary that it is native related to сыти́ть (sytítʹ, “to sweeten”), the juxtaposition there of German Lab with laben for semantical comparison is incorrect, the former is of unknown origin and the later is Latin lavāre, and the Russian verb is rare and сычу́г exists only in East Slavic). Armenian borrowing? I don’t know. Fay Freak (talk) 19:23, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

@Calak, Fay Freak, sorry for the late response. I have developed the etymology based on your interesting original proposals. Calak, what does the Semnanî word mean and do you have a source for it? Also, do you find Persian شجک (šiǰuk); it has been quoted by some Armenian researcher, without giving the meaning.

I do not believe old direct borrowings from Armenian in Russian are possible. Russian сычу́г (syčúg, “rennet-bag”), if related, must be from Turkic or Iranian. --Vahag (talk) 11:57, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I found Semnani word in a SK dictionary, it means "whey".

Just found šaǰuk "camel, horse, ... sound".--Calak (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, the Kurdish forms look like Turkish süzük (“filtered, strained”), from süzmek. --Vahag (talk) 12:18, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Kurdish sizik should be from earlier *sa/izuk, cogante with Persian sajuk. I also found SK sicik /siǰik/ and sizaw (siz + aw "water") in that dictionary. From süzmek, we have Central Kurdish سووزمە (sûzme). By the way, Turkish ü > Kudish i has no evidence.--Calak (talk) 12:51, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Cool. Please add the newly found SK forms to the շիճուկ (šičuk) page. --Vahag (talk) 12:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Why would Russian сычу́г (syčúg) be from an equivalent of Ottoman Turkish صوجوق (sucuk) though if Ottoman Turkish صوجوق (sucuk) is borrowed at the typical late (?) point from Persian زیجک (zijak) (an etymology that Vahagn added in 2009 to Turkish sucuk I copied to the Ottoman)? Something about the chronology is wrong, or we also need the etymology of Persian زیجک (zijak, “the intestines of a lamb stuffed with mincemeat, rice, etc.”). The cognates given so far for the Turkish are Chagatai and Kipchak, of the Turkic languages that have had contact with Persian, while for early Russian Turkic borrowings we would need more northern Turkic languages. Fay Freak (talk) 13:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I took sucuk's etymology from Nişanyan. {{R:tr:Eren|page=376}} has much more on the etymology of sucuk, but I don't speak Turkish. The word is recorded in many other Turkic languages. --Vahag (talk) 13:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)