Talk:استأنف

RFV discussion: July 2022

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استأنف

Arabic. Rfv-sense: to begin — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 16:44, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

FWIW, it's in Wehr under form X. 98.170.164.88 02:53, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Sorry but Wehr have some weird/incomplete/badly glossed definitions that no Arabic dictionary have, nor used in reality. I don't know why people here treats it like the English/German Bible of Arabic... — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 03:54, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fenakhay: It's not only in HW but in Steingass as "begin; be the first to do a thing". Hans Wehr is not a Bible but there's just no comparable bilingual dictionary out there. There are some other dictionary hits as well. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:45, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Steingass is worse than Wehr... It is completely unreliable. If you can find three quotations with that sense, be my guest. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 04:50, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fenakhay: Thanks. If it can't be confirmed, it will be deleted. Native or advanced speakers will only be able to verify. If these two are bad what are poor Arabic learners left with? LOL. The rest is either too small or lacks grammatical info or is not arranged properly or even worse accuracy. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Atitarev: The problem with English-Arabic dictionaries is the bad glossing which is due to them being limited by space. Natives and advanced learners will use monolingual Arabic dictionaries, which are more precise and accurate, anyway. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 05:09, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fenakhay, Atitarev: The 5th German edition reads: beginnen, wiederaufnehmen, fortsetzen – the 6th edition has modified it, apparently in awareness that it would be an inexact gloss, now it has added two important words: wiederaufnehmen, von neuem beginnen, fortsetzen. “To begin anew.” Yet IP has added a legit quote, and the monolingual Arabic dictionaries define it as اِبْتَدَأَ (ibtadaʔa, “to begin, to commence”), but Lane’s “to anticipate” (Lane, Edward William (1863) “اِسْتَأْنَفَ”, in Arabic-English Lexicon‎^[1], London: Williams & Norgate, page 160a) will fit more, as the antithesis to something which “has passed”. As اِسْتَأْنَفَ (istaʔnafa) means “to take the أَنْف (ʔanf) of, this also makes more sense as this would figuratively mean something protruding from something as which can be grabbed first, therefore we have مُسْتَأْنَف (mustaʔnaf) (well covered in Lane column b) as well as the term أَنْف (ʔanf, literally “nose”) as “the first part of anything”. The only difference to the sense “to resume” is then that the verb does not require the thing that is initiated or expected to become a repeated process; I therefore define the monolithic meaning as “to apprehend the beginning of”, which has often been used for cases of revanche by reason that form X has a desiderative meaning. Note all those French verbs starting in re- that don’t actually mean anything repetitive — in this case the development may be seen as reverse and we can track both shades, but I regloss it in avoidance of the minute distinction in order to avert confusion about a question that practically rarely demands consideration, assuming it does not need to mean any thus specific European idea at all. Fay Freak (talk) 16:49, 29 July 2022 (UTC)