Talk:منذ
Conjunction - usage example[edit]
I removed this usage example for the sense under Conjunction: مَا خَرَجَ مِنَ ٱلْبَيْتِ مُنْذُ نَزَلَ ٱلْمَطَرُ ― mā ḵaraja mina l-bayti munḏu nazala l-maṭaru ― He didn't leave the house since it rained There are a few problems with this. The IP who added the English translation seems to be someone whose native language is neither English nor Arabic, as shown by the odd usage of the simple past and the fact that, before a second user edited it, نزل المطر had been misunderstood/mistranslated as "the plane landed". The Arabic sentence also seems poorly formed: first, the idiomatic verb for "to rain" is هطل المطر rather than نزل المطر, and second, the usage of ما خرج rather than the more MSA-typical لم يخرج is problematic here.
By "problematic", I mean that...
- Two English definitions are given for this sense, "as soon as" and "since".
- The example's "maa [verb] ... [preposition]" structure seems evocative to me of ما إن ... حتى, a structure loosely meaning "as soon as".
- But the provided English translation instead goes with the meaning of "since".
- And both the English and the Arabic read stilted.
...so it's unclear both what exactly the usage example was meant to mean and which exact definition it's supposed to be an example of. I'll try to check in with a speaker who's more acquainted with MSA to help produce a better-formed example.
M. I. Wright (talk) 07:44, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
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Rfv-sense: "as soon as". Up until today, this entry's had both that sense and "since" listed in one definition under Conjunction, but I split the two up because I was skeptical. An IP then saw fit to add an rfv-sense for "as soon as" -- I agree with that, because it doesn't really scan for me and none of the dictionaries I can check seem to indicate such a usage.
The only thing close that I've found in a cursory search is an online dictionary giving the example ما ودّع أحدا منذ علم بالخبر, which could be interpreted as "he stopped giving out goodbyes as soon as he heard the news", but a closer translation is of course "he hasn't said goodbye to anyone since he heard the news". So I remain skeptical. Any concrete proof in either direction? M. I. Wright (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- RFV-deleted — surjection ⟨??⟩ 13:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)