Talk:ভাল

@Sagir Ahmed Msa Do you have material for Middle Assamese? If so please let us know, we can add the code and you can start adding terms! DerekWinters (talk) 11:14, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters At the moment I only know some possible sound changes, comparing with other Bengali-Assamese and Indo-Aryan languages. Like final "-a" deletion, then /a/ affected /a/, /ɔ/ and /ɛ/ in Eastern Assamese and /ɔ/ and /ɛ/ in Central Assamese etc and also the /s/ to /x/ and /ɦ/ shiftings etc. But don't know exactly when these happened. - Sagir

@Sagir Ahmed Msa: Oh ok, that's fair. I'll see if I can find any material online. DerekWinters (talk) 03:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Is the সপ্তকাণ্ড ৰামায়ণ any good? DerekWinters (talk) 03:55, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh but apparently the আদিকাণ্ড and উত্তৰাকাণ্ড are later additions. DerekWinters (talk) 03:57, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

And maybe this? প্ৰহ্লাদ চৰিত্ৰ DerekWinters (talk) 04:04, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm reading it. -- Sagir

@Sagir Ahmed Msa Are they actually older forms of Assamese or are they modern? DerekWinters (talk) 06:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters Older -- Sagir

@DerekWinters আদিকাণ্ড and উত্তৰাকাণ্ড were composed by Madhavadeva and Sankaradeva in 15th-16th century, the other 5 were by Madhava Kandali in 14th century. He was from Central Assam (where modern Central Assamese is spoken). So I think we can consider it as Middle Assamese. I think the language(s) which was/were spoken in North Assam (Brahmaputra valley) and North Bengal (Coch Behar) were almost same. প্ৰহ্লাদ চৰিত্ৰ was composed by Hema Saraswati in 13th century. He was a poet from Koch/Kamata Kingdom (Koch Hajo in Western Assam and Coch Behar in North Bengal), Sankaradeva was from Central Assam and he influenced both Ahom kingdom (most of Brahmaputra valley) and Koch kingdom. But since Saptakanda Ramayana has more resources, I think we should consider it as Middle Assamese. -- User:Sagir Ahmed Msa

@Sagir Ahmed Msa: Could we not consider both as different dialects of Middle Assamese? DerekWinters (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@Sagir Ahmed Msa Whoops. DerekWinters (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters We can I guess, we have to match them. Btw..why whoops? --Sagir

@Sagir Ahmed Msa Because I tagged you incorrectly. So maybe, Central and Western tags for Middle Assamese? DerekWinters (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA Can we get a code for Middle Assamese? Maybe inc-mas? DerekWinters (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Sure, I get a lot of hits on Google Books in many sources, so it seems to be accepted by scholarly consensus. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 18:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Yes, also Eastern. --User:Sagir Ahmed Msa

@Sagir Ahmed Msa: Sounds good! DerekWinters (talk) 18:42, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Middle Assamese

@DerekWinters, @AryamanA, Hi, should we call it Middle Assamese or Old Assamese? Because there's also Kamrupi Prakrit (maybe before 12th or 11th century), so if we count middle Assamese from 13th century then we just have 100-200 years gap for Old Assamese.
Another problem is that in Wikisource many spellings are written differently. When I checked an original manuscript, I found that in many spellings শ is used instead of স just like the standard spelling system of Modern Assamese which is based on traditional/Sanskrit spellings. Many ঝ are written as জ and probably even more. The manuscript which I checked lacks র (ৱ) and য় and other dotted characters, but other manuscripts contain dotted characters. In that manuscript জ is used for all "j" sounds. But in Wikisource both জ and য are used. It will be great if we can find more manuscripts of সপ্তকাণ্ড ৰামায়ণ and also other manuscripts which were written continuously until the end of Ahom Kingdom in 1826. Msasag (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

@Msasag: I think Old Assamese is the better term. "middle+assamese"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2_c_j0K3bAhVKA6wKHSdyClEQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q="middle%20assamese"&f=false says Middle Assamese was in the 16th and 17th centuries, so 13th century seems to be an earlier stage of the language. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 14:22, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA Yeah, can we change the name? Msasag (talk) 14:29, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

@Msasag: Hmm, do you think making a new code inc-oas for Old Assamese would be a better idea? Eventually you or someone else may want to add true Middle Assamese entries. A bot could rename all the entries and change codes. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:01, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA, Right, I think it should be done. Msasag (talk) 02:04, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA waiting for the new code. Msasag (talk) 20:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@Msasag: Sorry, I didn't get your first ping for some reason. Added the code.

@Wyang Hi, it would be great if you could help us with the bot work here. We need all instances of the language code inc-mas changed to inc-oas, and all instances of "Middle Assamese" changed to "Old Assamese". I'd do it myself but I don't have pywikibot set up on this machine (not to mention my "bot" doesn't have the bot flag). Thanks! —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 22:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

There's only 30 Middle Assamese lemmas, you should probably just do it by hand. DTLHS (talk) 22:19, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA Anyway, I've changed all the Middle Assamese L2 headers to Old Assamese, and all instances of inc-mas in Indo-Aryan entries to inc-oas: [1]. The following 7 pages with "Middle Assamese" still need attention: [2]. Wyang (talk) 00:23, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

@DTLHS: Wow, I thought we had more? And there was also CAT:Assamese terms derived from Old Assamese.

@Wyang: Thanks a lot! Sorry for bothering you, I should really learn to do this stuff myself. I'll fix the pages needing attention. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 01:08, 2 June 2018 (UTC)