Talk:គូត

RFV discussion: April 2018–July 2020

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គូត

As disscussed in Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Non-English#គូត, this gonna be some kind of slang. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:58, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Both User:Stephen G. Brown and myself confirmed that this term is in Tuttle Practical Cambodian Dictionary (page 14) but verifying this term seems difficult. Note the dictionary itself is not digitised. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:45, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I wonder if there are other words meaning bottom or relations that we could compare. --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

ថ្ពាល់គូថ (thpŏəl kuut) (buttocks, backside), គូថ (kuut) (buttocks; excrement), គូធ (kuut) (buttocks; excrement), គូទ (kuut) (buttocks). Why do you ask about words that mean "relations"? There are various words that mean "relations", but nothing to do with "bottom". —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:26, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I said if there are other language relations. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:28, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. Besides the above, there are also ខ្ទត (khtɔɔt) (to move the buttocks), ខ្ទីត (khtiit) (to have the buttocks protruding while walking), ខ្ទុត (khtut) (to move the buttocks), ខ្ទែត (khtɛɛt) (to have prominent buttocks), គគូទ (kɔkuut) (buttocks), ចំតិត (cɑmtət) (to stick the buttocks out), ចំទយ (châmtôy) (to stick the buttocks out), គ្រហីត (krɔhəyt) (face down with the bottom sticking up). —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:40, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I've added the etymology and alternative forms. Perhaps only one or two can be verified. According to Sealang dictionary, គូត (kuut), គូទ (kuut), គូធ (kuut) are all variants. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Octahedron80, Stephen G. Brown: The term is derived from Pali gūtha or Sanskrit गूथ (gūtha, “feces”), which makes sense. គូទ (kuut) gives lots of "bum" related images, plain Google hits and three Google books hits. I think we can make គូទ (kuut) the main entry and mark the others as verified. @Stephen, apparently English is Octahedron80's second language but I understand what he means. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Octahedron80: You have created គូថ (kuut). It's yet another alternative form of the same word. We just need to decide, which one should be the main form and which ones are alternative spellings. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:39, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

គូថ is the most correct spelling compared to Pali/Sanskrit consonant group [ត ថ ទ ធ ន] = [t th d dh n]. Thai also has คูถ in one form only. You know that Khmer words from Pali/Sanskrit almost keep original consonants. Or else, គូត & គូថ may not relate each other; I have new theory that គូត may be borrowed from Thai ตูด but they don't like to pronounce t-. --Octahedron80 (talk) 21:26, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

• Comment: since Khmer isn't in WT:WDL, wouldn't Tuttle Practical Cambodian Dictionary be enough for verification? Etymology is a separate issue. @Octahedron80, Atitarev, Stephen G. Brown, should this be closed? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Justinrleung, Octahedron80: It's time to close this RFV as passed. (Stephen G. Brown hasn't been available for a very long time). --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

RFD discussion: March 2018–July 2020

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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គូត

Not exist. Perhaps misspelling of គូថ (kuut). --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:39, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

There are a lot of Google hits for it. It is also listed in Tuttle Practical Cambodian Dictionary (page 14). There is a song named រាំបិទគូត (rŏəmbətkuut, “rom bət kut”). I think it exists, but it might still be a misspelling or dialectal. It needs the eye of a native speaker. —Stephen ^(Talk) 12:34, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

I confirm this spelling exists in the dictionary and prefer to keep it, although there are only two results in Google books. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Is it a slang or something? --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Octahedron80: It must be a slang. Although we should only keep verified terms, slang or neologisms should probably use some other criteria. Khmer must be still an exotic language for digitised book, especially slang. It has been confirmed that it exists in a published dictionary, though. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:11, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I changed to RFV instead. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:13, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Hits in Google Books are very unreliable for Khmer, because they rely on OCR. OCR programs work well for English, but very poorly for most other scripts, such as Arabic, Thai, Tibetan, Lao, Telugu, Burmese, and especially Khmer. Most or all hits will be scanos, and virtually all valid cases will be completely overlooked. OCS has not caught up to the complexities of most non-Roman scripts. In any case, គូត (kuut) would not be slang, since the pronunciation is identical to other spellings. At worst, it could be a misspelling. I don't think it can qualify as a misspelling, though, because it is acceptable in Khmer to spell words in other ways that achieve the correct pronunciation. Most cases of Khmer misspellings involve subscript consonants, since the subscripts of some consonants are identical to those of other consonants. —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

• Closed, as the discussion is moved to RFV. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@Octahedron80, Justinrleung, Atitarev

Sorry, I'm late to the party...

So, almost all sources are pretty concordant and clear on the topic:

• គូទ (kuut) ​means "buttocks/backside" (see etymology below)
• គូថ (kuut) means "excrement" from Sanskrit गूथ (gūtha) "feces".

Verified in Headley 97, Chuon Nath, a few other dictionaries or glossaries (Truffert, and partially in Anthelme, Tep Yok,...), as well as websites (link) and a YouTube video on the topic (sorry, can't link. Title: "Learning Khmer homophones #34"), as it seems to confuse a lot of natives as well. Of the respectable sources, only Headley 77 seems to have fallen in the trap.

The spelling គូត (kuut)​ for គូទ (kuut)​ and គូធ (kuut)​ for គូថ (kuut)​ are alternative​ ​spellings that must have been quite old, as orthography has never been really standardized (for example, Guesdon 1930 uses these spellings, on top of a fluctuating vowel length: គូធ (kuut)​ ~ គុធ (kut)).

For the etymology of គូទ (kuut, “buttocks”)​, I found 2 theories:

1. Chuon Nath: from Sanskrit गुद (guda), "anus, rectum" (again, with a short u),
2. a short mention in Shorto/Sidwell's Mon-Khmer comparative dictionary:
   • *[b]ut lower part of back.
     • A: Stieng buːt, Sre, Bunör but, Chrau vɯt, Central Rölöm bɯt lower part of back, buttocks, Biat but waist. Cf. Khmer kùːt buttocks, Kuy khùːt base of spine;

There are a few more terms relating to buttocks/backside in Khmer of the type ktVt or kdVt as listed by Stephen, but Shorto doesn't correlate them to kùːt.

If you see no issue, I will update and split the entries accordingly, and make a reference for alt spellings and alt meanings. Sitaron (talk) 09:44, 5 June 2021 (UTC)