Talk:活発

Is "quasi-adjective" a valid heading (now)? Or is quasi adjective? Mutante 16:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

redirect?

Perhaps we should make this page a redirect to 活発な? I can go ahead and do that if nobody has any objections. Thanks Haplology 03:21, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

One alternative would be to use the format seen at 静か. That might work better than a flat-out redirect; it seems folks here prefer to avoid redirects where possible, though it would seem to make things much easier to use for languages like Japanese with lots of identical (or at least closely related) content under multiple different headings...

That said, I seriously wonder why the lemma forms of な adjectives all include the な -- no other dictionary that I've seen does this, only Wiktionary. Looking at Wiktionary_talk:About_Japanese#形容動詞, it seems that User:Robert_Ullmann was one (maybe the main?) proponent of doing so, but I have not yet read anything to explain why. I am personally strongly opposed to this, and would dearly love to see the main entries for all な adjectives residing under the entries for the root forms, such as 活発 or 静か, making Wiktionary less of a bizarre outlier on this point. I've tried to bring up a few points for discussion on the WT:AJA talk page, such as Wiktionary_talk:About_Japanese#Lemma forms for keiyōdōshi about this very issue, but that page seems to get very little traffic these days. Any thoughts on that score? Perhaps we should bring this up at WT:BEER? -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 04:21, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree a redirect would be cheating, but looking at 静か, I'm not sure I agree with that page, because I think adnominals are taken to be 連体詞, but that's just going from the category Category:Japanese adnominals. I suppose it fits the linguistic definition of a word modifying a noun, in which case the category's description should be changed, but then there would be no category for 連体詞.

Pages like 綺麗な seem a little funny to me too, and I would prefer if pages like 本当 contained the adjective section rather than it being on another page. It's really complicated and I don't claim to understand it completely but if you asked what the form is in isolation, I think you would say it's 本当, and if 本当な is an inflected form, you would say yes, so the main page should be 本当. I think it should be brought up at the Beer Parlor. Haplology 06:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

RFC discussion: May 2010–August 2011

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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活発

Let's sort out if "quasi adjective" (or quasi-adjective ?) is a valid heading now and if the category should be created etc, how to treat them in general. Mutante 16:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer these to just be adjectives - that is certainly what the definition reads as in English - but I have no knowledge of Japanese grammar. For reference, all the words with this header are Japanese:

• hen, hen, ヘンテコ, 不愉快, 不測, 冷静, 変な, 変な, 愚か, 早計, 活発, 深刻, 無力, 無力, 至急, 過酷, 野蛮 — This comment was unsigned.

We have an English defintion for this term that fits this use. I say keep 'em all. Maybe the header should link to the common noun. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

A bit late, but by way of further reference, Wiktionary:About Japanese does include quasi-adjective as a POS. -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 02:14, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, it also says "Use L3 or L4 header Adjective". -- Prince Kassad 17:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Looks like Haplology reclassified this as a noun in a bid at cleaning up the entry; problem is, 活発 is never classified as a noun in Japanese, nor used as such -- it only ever has a な or に afterwards (unless used in compounds), making it that dreaded quasi adjective in English (a category I quite dislike, but that's a different matter; and shouldn't that be hyphenated?), or a 形容動詞 in Japanese.

I've therefore re-added the RFC tag, and am starting a related discussion over at Wiktionary_talk:About_Japanese. -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 18:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Not much traffic over there of late, and after talking with Haplology, I restated that post over at WT:BEER#Preferred forms for Japanese lemmata. -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 17:37, 23 August 2011 (UTC)