Talk:Force

RFD discussion

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rfd-sense: defined strictly in a fictional universe sense. Doesn't have citations that support any other sense. COCA has plenty of hits for may the Force be with you. I would expect that there is some definition that could be written and attested using no more than one cite of "may the Force be with you" that did not seem like it was written by a LucasFilm publicist or Starwars fanchild. DCDuring TALK 18:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

At the local book store, in the men's room there is a note on the garbage can that says "do not compress by hand" under this a joker has written "use the force instead". This is a use of the term force in colloquial English. RJFJR 01:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. All we need are:

1. a definition and
2. evidence consistent with our attestation standards (with the term capitalized).

We already have the term in lower case. I'll be happy to insert an rfdef to get some in our crack corps of definers to compete to provide some good definitions. DCDuring TALK 01:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

google books:"god or the force" pulls up many irrelevant hits, but also a fair number that seem potentially relevant. Some explicitly mention Star Wars — I'm not sure if that's an argument for or against keeping the sense — and some seem to be using "the Force" unhumorously and unselfconsciously (much as one might write "the Holy One" or "the Father") — but a few, such as this one, seem to fall in the narrow but perfect band where they probably mean the Star Wars Force, but don't say so explicitly. But I don't know how to make certain of that. (There are probably other such searches we can try; "god or the force" was just my first thought.) —Ruakh_TALK 03:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

That one actually does mention Star Wars as a source of scenarios for use in therapy, twice, but not close to the particular quotation. —Michael Z. 2009-09-12 06:58 z

Are you saying that the quote is

1. broad-sense attributive use of "the Force" to support the fictional universe Proper noun;
2. evidence of its use as a synonym for an abstract deity; or
3. evidence of something else?

I'm not expecting to be up to this one. It's just not as much worth the effort as some other causes in which I've been taking an interest. I'm not finding this as much in my current range of interests as collocations and prepositions. DCDuring TALK 03:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying I think it's your option #1, but I'm not sure how to make certain of that. (Some of the other hits do fall into your option #2, though.) Re: being up to it: Totally understandable. No pressure. :-)   —Ruakh_TALK 18:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Kept for no consensus for months.--Jusjih 02:34, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Post-decision endorsement of keeping this one. bd2412 T 18:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Removed from article (failed RFV)

Etymology 2

From (deprecated template usage) force; coined by George Lucas for the Star Wars series as a power contained in all living beings, as explained in the fictional Jedi and Sith religions.

Proper noun

the Force

1. A mystical source of energy.
   • 1977, George Lucas, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, 20th Century Fox

     Obi-Wan Kenobi: Use the Force, Luke.

   • 1999 September 5, Master Mantak Chia, forward to Eric Steven Yudelove, Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy: Transforming Your Body, Mind, and Spirit, Llewellyn Publications (2004), →ISBN, page xix:

     Sometimes I swear he must have used “the Force” to accomplish what seemed to be absolutely impossible outcomes.

   • 2002, The way home, or, Face the fire, JAH Publications, page 77:

     Jesus used the “Force” to work the miracles in the New Covenant.

   • 2004, Jim Domanski, Profiting by Phone: No Nonsense Skills and Techniques for Selling and Getting Leads by Telephone, Business By Phone Inc., →ISBN, page 215:

     This chapter is about using the “Force” in telesales.

   • 2007, Caleb Grimes, Star Wars Jesus: A Spiritual Commentary on the Reality of the Force, page 101:

     God allows us to use the Force that he gave us—his image—for good or for evil, to follow him or to not.

See also

• lightsaber

"Star Wars" attestations

Perhaps this one?

• 2008 Jackson, Robert L., Is Your Faith Up to the Challenge?, Question #176

  "If I totally make something up like, a fuzzy pink dinosaur named LeRoy lives under my bed and gives me stock tips, or that I can use the Force to levitate objects with my mind, how do you discern the fact that I'm not telling you the truth?

As a book, its merits are a little dubious, but no mention whatsoever of Star Wars or Jedis in the text. And, while we're on topic, damn those infinite Star Wars novelisations! Ackatsis 10:04, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

• 2004 Freeman, Lynda W., Mosby's complementary and alternative medicine, Elsevier Health Sciences, p225

  One young client being seen for neurotherapy for ADD reported he was using "the force" to help him produce the desire response.

• 1998 Marcia Clarke & Teresa Carpenter, Without a Doubt, Penguin Group (Canada), p2

  Before the Simpson case, I'd prosecuted twenty homicides. I'd brought cases against twenty defendants who I believed in my heart were guilty. And all but one jury agreed. I felt The Force was with me, if you know what I mean.

Ackatsis 10:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that we are there yet, but time is probably on your side. Persistence is likely to pay off for this one. BTW, citations fgor this should be for the capitalized form. DCDuring TALK 15:45, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

RFV discussion

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

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Star Wars sense. We need some non-fictional-universe citations, please. Equinox ◑ 17:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Well it was used in a recent radio advert here in the UK ("Use the force on that oil filter, Luke"), but (a) that's clearly used in direct reference to Star Wars (I don't know if it counts therefore) and (b) it doesn't appear to have made it onto any durably archived place on the net that I can find. One non-durably archived post dates it to at least late 2009 and I last heard it about a week or so back. This does beg the question, how durably archived are radio and TV adverts? Thryduulf (talk) 21:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Would it fall under the "With respect to names of persons or places from fictional universes, they shall not be included unless they are used out of context in an attributive sense" rule, or just the more general fictional-universe-word rule? —Ruakh_TALK 22:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think the more general rule is the one that would apply as it's neither a person nor a place. The radio advert does use it without any mention of Star Wars or any explicit context. So if it is durably archived (and I can't find that it is durably archived in a searchable format on the web). I suspect this will pass, but I haven't got time currently to wade through the many hundreds of thousands of hits. Thryduulf (talk) 10:17, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Just had a go at this, and added a few citations that I believe are quite suitable. Ackatsis 01:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Thank you! (Note to other editors: see the cites added in this edit.) —Ruakh_TALK 11:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Correction: I've tracked down one of the cites on b.g.c., and it's completely unsuitable. The context explicitly states that the Force is from the movie Star Wars, and quotes the most famous relevant line. I haven't checked the others yet, but I retract my statement that the cites look good. Presumably Ackatsis (talk • contribs) was not familiar with the relevant criteria. —Ruakh_TALK 20:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Of our current cites, I think that only the 1999 one is valid. The other ones are all either in the Star Wars movies, or in Star Wars–mentioning contexts. —Ruakh_TALK 20:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

RFV failed, sense/section removed. —Ruakh_TALK 02:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)