Talk:balneam

RFV discussion: January–December 2014

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balneam

balneum is commonly a heterogenous noun and has balneae -ārum, f. as its plural (though an entirely neuter second declension usage appeared later). No source to which I have access shows legitimate singular first declension usage i.e. balneam. Endithon (talk) 18:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I think that if at some point the singular's declension was extended analogically to the plural, the reverse process could conceivably have happened as well. —CodeCat 18:54, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Sure, it's plausible that balneae would have back-formed a singular balnea, but is it attested? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

This seems to be well attested, but I'd appreciate it if a Latin-speaker could double check these citations:

• 1877, Hints for Hospital Nurses, arranged by Rachel Williams, and Alice Fisher, page 168:

  Balneam tepidam. — Warm bath.

• 1892, Ungarische Revue, page 648:

  So z. B. Rechnungsb. der Stadt Kronstadt. I. Bd. S. 253: Item pro uno vase walachali ad balneam stubam inferiorem pro lexivio […]

• 1899, Scottish Medical and Surgical Journal, volume 5, page 149:

  His orders were dictated to his clerk in sonorous Latin. "Descendat in balneam tepidam, hora somni."

- -sche (discuss) 02:15, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Assuming that the RFV requester is allowed to comment, apologies if not, I have no access to the sources quoted so just comment on them as given. The first (Williams & Fisher), being a little out of context, appears to be indirect, possibly an aid to translation of some other source/quotation? If it was a direct definition then I'd assume that it would be in the nominative (balnea tepida). The second (Ungarische Revue) contains three other words (lexivio [presumed abl.], stubam [acc.] and walachali [presumed abl.]) I cannot find in classical latin so I'd have to guess at the meaning. The third is easily understandable to a latin speaker so the medical angle might prove fruitful. Endithon (talk) 19:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Of course you're allowed to comment! --WikiTiki89 19:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Here are some more citations:

• c. 720s, Gregory, an epistle to Serenus, quoted in 1839 in A Manual of Christian Antiquities, page 782:

  Sic homo, qui alium ardenter videre desiderat, aut sponsam amans videre conatur, si contigerit eam ad balneam aut ad ecclesiam ire, […]

- -sche (discuss) 20:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

For more citations, peruse google books:"balneam". - -sche (discuss) 20:14, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

These citations should probably go to balnea, as they're just inflected forms of the 1st declension singular form. If we could find citations of balnea and balneae as singular forms, they would also count. They are harder to cite though because they are identical to plural forms of balneum. —CodeCat 20:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

What does "Aug. per." mean in balneum? Can we exp. such amb. abs., please? - -sche (discuss) 20:36, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Augustan period. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:03, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

• In the case of several of the citations provided above, e.g. the 1899 "balne(V)m tepidam" cite and the 720s "ad balne(V)m aut ad ecclesiam" cite, I can find several ‘editions’ — several works quoting the same Latin texts — and some use "balneam" while others use "balneum". - -sche (discuss) 07:56, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

  In other words, I'm not sure it's possible to distinguish "erroneous use of [the form] balneam as a singular where balneum is the standard form" from "erroneous use of [the spelling] balneam where balneum is the standard form". I would mark this term as RFV-passed and tag it as nonstandard (placing the tag, as per usual practice, in the lemma entry, which in this case is balnea). - -sche (discuss) 17:52, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

  I have done what I suggested. (So, RFv-passed/kept.) - -sche (discuss) 03:20, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

A related RFV discussion will shortly be archived to Talk:balnea. - -sche (discuss) 11:12, 9 February 2021 (UTC)