Talk:ever since

Wiktionary:Requests for verification - kept

Kept. See archived discussion of December 2008. 16:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion debate

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

• Moved from WT:RFV. DAVilla 19:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Is this worth having as a separate entry? It is an intensifier + since in each of its three PoS incarnations, afaict. Other dictionaries seem to have "ever" in usage examples at since. DCDuring TALK 19:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Move to RFD and/or delete.—msh210℠ 18:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with DCDuring (talk • contribs), dictionaries do see to use "ever" in examples with since, as common practice. Cirt (talk) 07:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I had put this on RfV to give this at least 30 days for someone to come up with citations that show a meaning for one or more of the three PoSes that was not essentially "since (intensified)". DCDuring TALK 16:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how it's intensified. Using just since in some cases seems just plain awkward. Keep regardless. DAVilla 01:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Which PoS are you referring too? I didn't think of any examples that seemed awkward without "ever". DCDuring TALK 02:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The adverb particularly. Without ever it just sounds too formal. For the other two I'm not sure if it's an intensifier or something else. Saying "ever since" seems to establish a causal link moreso than just "since", which more or less establishes a timeline but does not hint that the two parts are more fundamentally related. I'm sure in some cases, though, it really is just an issue of intensification. Or is the relation I pointed out just another form of intensity? Anyways ever since as a conjunction runs off the tongue more easily at the start of a sentence. That at least seems like use without stressing anything. Also note that it distinguishes this meaning from the other definition of since as a conjuction. 67.9.175.207 08:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that I was incorrect to say that (deprecated template usage) ever was merely an intensifier of since. (deprecated template usage) Ever is used to modify (deprecated template usage) since, whatever function (deprecated template usage) since may be serving. It may on some occasions merely serve to clarify that the temporal rather than the causal sense of "since" is intended. It also can establish the idea that the performance is continuous rather than one-time. That disambiguation is particularly important when "since" would begin a sentence. Bare "since" could easily be taken causally. "Ever since" is less ambiguous.

But even when not fronted ever is useful. Consider:

"He showed up on time since the boss yelled at him." (ambiguous, both between causal or temporal emphasis and between repeated or one-time performance)

"He showed up on time ever since the boss yelled at him." (temporal emphasis and continuous performance)

That is entirely in accord with these two words being combined in an SoP way that in no way creates meaning that is not in each word separately.

AFAICT, "ever" ever carries a temporal meaning but only sometimes the continuous temporal meaning. DCDuring TALK 20:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Kept as no consensus, after more than 10 months. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:04, 20 September 2009 (UTC)