Talk:far
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- Discussion moved from WT:RFDE.
Request deletion of the entries for noun far and fars. The word does not exist in any dictionary. If this noun can be found anywhere then ignore this request. I have done diligent research. — This comment was unsigned.
- This should be taken to WT:RFV. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 09:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- links: far & fars John Cross (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Actually, it DOES appear in A Dictionary of the English Language by Samual Johnson, but that does not help RFV. Kiwima (talk) 05:16, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
I have added one cite. Kiwima (talk) 05:26, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
This originated as an RFD of two noun senses, "spelt wheat" and "young pig", but I was just barley able to cite "spelt wheat", so at this point it's just an RFV of "young pig". - -sche (discuss) 22:42, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
- RFV-failed I have left the single cite on the citations page. Kiwima (talk) 19:56, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia entry[edit]
I followed the link to the Wikipedia entry for "far" and was taken to the disambiguation page. I did not see there any indication that there is a Wikipedia article about the adjective "far". Caeruleancentaur (talk) 11:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Done Removed. Equinox ◑ 18:09, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
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Adj. sense: "More remote or longer of two". RFV "longer" sense only (not "more remote" sense). See also Wiktionary:Tea_room/2020/April#far. Mihia (talk) 11:02, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 18:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
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Adj. sense:
- Widely different in nature or quality; opposite in character.
- 2009, Graham Huggan, Ian Law, Racism Postcolonialism Europe, page 1:
- Tsiolkas's Europe, as voraciously predatory as his own undead protagonist, is a far cry from the fount of idealistic humanism dreamed up by generations of both pre- and post-Enlightenment politicians and philosophers, a Europe defined by its durable capacity for civility in an otherwise barbarous world.
The one example that is given seems bogus, not just because "far cry" is an idiomatic expression, but also because the origin of it, or literal meaning, has nothing to do with a "cry" that is "Widely different in nature or quality" or "opposite in character". Are there genuine examples where "far" means this? Mihia (talk) 21:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
- I can't think of anything with far off the top of my head, but there may be some. What comes to mind is phrases with the superlative like "the farthest emotion from my mind" or "the farthest color from purple is yellow". -Mike (talk) 22:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- If you have a point on the rim of a wheel, the point that is farthest from it (in distance) is the opposite point. If that wheel is the representation of a space of qualities, such as the colour wheel, that opposite point will often be as different in quality as possible. I still interpret this as the first listed sense, “distant; remote in space”. --Lambiam 09:39, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is interesting that you say that because Merriam-Webster groups the space, time, and "quality or relationship" together as closely related senses. However I still see a difference in quality as being different than a difference in spacial location. One could say that the difference in quality of color is a figurative use of the spacial difference because the color wheel only exists in our minds and doesn't actually exist in space (unless one constructs such a physical wheel and is displaying it). Whether to combine them comes down to preference I suppose. A single definition could just be "remote in space, time, quality, or relationship". However, keeping them separate might make it easier if one wanted to construct lists of synonyms, antonyms, and such. -Mike (talk) 17:12, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- You could be right that this definition should be along the lines of "distant/remote in degree/quality/nature", rather than the wording that we presently have. furthest has a combined definition: "Most distant in time, space or degree". I suppose that if we replicated this at far then we could perhaps fudge the issue of not having a specific example for "degree/quality/nature". One problem with this approach, though, is that the existing translations at far are specific for "remote in space" and "remote in time". (Whether they really need to be, I'm not sure, and, generally speaking, I suppose it is a case of the tail wagging the dog if translations prevent us from perfecting English definitions.) There are, I think, examples of the "distant/remote in degree/quality/nature" sense that involve the phrase "far from", e.g. "his views are far from mine", and I suppose, at a stretch, we could say that "yellow is far from purple" in a "quality" sense. However, the problem here is that I am unsure what part of speech "far" is in that phrase. It seems to me that it could be an adverb. See Wiktionary:Tea_room#far_(2). If we can verify that it is an adjective then "far from" examples might do, or if we can come up with a good example along the lines of "he has far views" or "yellow is the far colour" (neither of which seem to me to work properly, other than, in the latter case, literally spatially), where "far" is more clearly an adjective, then so much the better. Mihia (talk) 19:07, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is interesting that you say that because Merriam-Webster groups the space, time, and "quality or relationship" together as closely related senses. However I still see a difference in quality as being different than a difference in spacial location. One could say that the difference in quality of color is a figurative use of the spacial difference because the color wheel only exists in our minds and doesn't actually exist in space (unless one constructs such a physical wheel and is displaying it). Whether to combine them comes down to preference I suppose. A single definition could just be "remote in space, time, quality, or relationship". However, keeping them separate might make it easier if one wanted to construct lists of synonyms, antonyms, and such. -Mike (talk) 17:12, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- If you have a point on the rim of a wheel, the point that is farthest from it (in distance) is the opposite point. If that wheel is the representation of a space of qualities, such as the colour wheel, that opposite point will often be as different in quality as possible. I still interpret this as the first listed sense, “distant; remote in space”. --Lambiam 09:39, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
cited Kiwima (talk) 22:46, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I don't agree that the new citations support the challenged sense. The phrase "far difference/remove", as used therein, does not mean a difference or remove that is "widely different in nature or quality" or "opposite in character", as it would need to. It is the things being compared that are widely different. Mihia (talk) 17:07, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
- RFV-resolved. I have tweaked the definition to take into account @Mihia's comments. Kiwima (talk) 22:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Kiwima: Thanks for looking at this again. I have moved the "far cry" example because by origin it doesn't mean "an extreme cry" but in fact a "long-distance cry". Mihia (talk) 20:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- RFV-resolved. I have tweaked the definition to take into account @Mihia's comments. Kiwima (talk) 22:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
how far: To what degree, distance, or extent: didn't know how far to believe them; tried to decide how far she could ski in such cold. https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=far
--Backinstadiums (talk) 16:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: Did you look at the entry? Adjective sense 6. Equinox ◑ 16:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
(Conj.) Insofar as: So far as I am concerned, the project is over. --Backinstadiums (talk) 20:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
More remote of two[edit]
What's the opposite term for the other one of the two then? --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- near ? the one on the near side of the mountain ? Leasnam (talk) 17:38, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
as/so far as it goes to a limited degree, usually less than is enough --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:43, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Negative Polarity Item; Not attributively[edit]
Far in questions and negative sentences ‘a long distance’: something is far away or a long way away. In modern English, ‘far’ is not used in front of a noun: instead distant, faraway, or far-off. Also to talk about the degree or extent to which something happens, How far have you got in developing this? None of us would trust them very far. --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- A long way is the assertive of counterpart of far https://www.eltconcourse.com/training/inservice/lexicogrammar/assertive_non-assertive.html JMGN (talk) 17:03, 12 August 2023 (UTC)