Talk:hook and eye

Deletion debate

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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SoP.​—msh210℠ 18:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, very weak keep. The fact that the hook and eye have a specific function seems to make this idiomatic, it's not any hook with any eye. That would be the SoP definition. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

What else would you use a hook and eye for but fastening? (That's not rhetorical: I want to know, so I can look for cites to see whether hook and eye is actually used that way.)​—msh210℠ 18:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, but I'm not sure it's relevant. That's knowledge based. We're a dictionary we just define terms. Oh and keep. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd never heard this term (if term it be) before, so can't say for sure; but the hits at google books:"a hook and eye mechanism" seem to suggest set-phrase-ness. —Ruakh_TALK 18:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm amazed you've never heard of it. I think velcro uses hook and eye. I bet hook-and-eye is attestable too. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, maybe I shouldn't say I've never heard it. I suppose it's safer to say that I wasn't familiar with the phrase until now, which leaves open the possibility that I've heard it gazillions of times, but was never paying enough attention, or somehow always forgot afterward, or something. —Ruakh_TALK 21:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Another thing that may show set-phrase-ness is the prevalence of "hook and eyes" (books) to refer to multiple sets, each of a single hook and a single eye.​—msh210℠ 18:37, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Strong Keep - It's in the OED (with this spelling). SemperBlotto 21:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Keep, to remain with the other lemmings. But I'm also pretty sure we could show that this would almost never have modification of its constituents and would almost always coordinate as a unit. Those are basic tests for being a set phrase. DCDuring TALK 23:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Strong Keep - this entry was created because it appeared in the wanted list. I assume that those who have not heard the phrase are not Britons - or am I showing my age. —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

It's not a question of nor having heard "hook and eye": I have. (I'm American.) But I've also heard "keyboard and mouse" and "TV and VCR" and "lipstick and eyeshadow" and "bat and ball", none of which we should have as entries.​—msh210℠ 17:29, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I understand that, but keyboard and mouse are both computer-related - if you looked up either in a dictionary you find all you needed to know - and I can use a keyboard without a mouse. Conversely, if I read that someone bought some hooks and eyes in the High Street I would have no idea what they were or what they might be used for, they are bought in pairs, you would be unlikely to use one without the other. And Webster's also has an entry. —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 18:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

You can use a keyboard without a mouse or vice versa, but you're very unlikely to on a modern computer. You cannot use a VCR without a TV, except to rewind tapes. But I don't really see that the ability to use or likelihood of using one of the things without the other is particularly relevant. If I said I need to buy a hook and eye, or hooks and eyes, and you would have no idea what I meant, then that'd probably be because you're unfamiliar with the word eye (in this sense), no? Kinda like someone who's used to rodents but not computers not knowing what I mean if I say I'm going to buy keyboards and mice. You probably have a very good argument but I'm not grasping it.​—msh210℠ 18:37, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Just to help you out. If I said I wanted to buy some hooks, it would take you all week to realise what kind of hooks I wanted. you would think of hooks on the wall, fishing hooks, a workshop tool, etc. Until I tell you "hook and eye", you would never guess. The same goes if I say I'm going to buy some eyes. -- ALGRIF talk 10:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

...and mice.​—msh210℠ 16:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

• kept already. Lemmings are wise --Soleil levant 00:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)