Talk:irreverent

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irreverent

The sense in question:

1. Disrespectful, cynical, cavilling, querulous, or vulgar, where one's own feelings, or especially deference to the feelings of others, customarily command silence, discretion, and circumspection.

Which is redundant to:

1. Lacking proper respect or seriousness; sarcastic.

Aside from being redundant, it's a textbook example of thesaurus abuse... Chuck Entz (talk) 14:08, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete. Pretty much the same sense written in a way that makes it harder to understand. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 14:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree. What also bothers me is that there is a translation section with two senses, and I'm not sure that the glosses correspond to the senses above them, or if they do, which is which. "Lacking proper respect or seriousness; sarcastic." seems to be the only accurate sentence on that entry. I'd keep that, delete the ugly one, merge the translations, and revise the gloss so that it matches. Haplogy (話) 14:33, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• Delete and merge translations as above. bd2412 T 15:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Delete and also remove "sarcastic" from the remaining definition. While sarcasm can be irreverent, it is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for irreverence. The two are really quite different. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:15, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• The definitions given seem clearly redundant, but I think translators sometimes don't translate the senses given, but rather their own understanding of the senses the word actually has in the real world. In this case, both "satirical" (not "sarcastic") and "lacking or exhibiting a lack of respect" are distinguishable senses of the word. The lexicographers at AHD agree. Do the translations exhibit this kind of distinction?

Also, very few lexicographers use the word "proper" in the definition. A possible, more neutral neutral substitute is "expected". DCDuring TALK 16:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Delete the nominated sense as redundant: "Disrespectful, cynical, cavilling, querulous, or vulgar, where one's own feelings, or especially deference to the feelings of others, customarily command silence, discretion, and circumspection." Do not merge the excessive verbiage of the nominated sense to the 1st sense. Dictionaries having only one sense for "irreverent" (“irreverent”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.): Collins, Macmillan, MWO, not AHD (has two senses). We could have two senses, but the nominated sense does not contain anything helpful in constructing them. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:48, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
• RFD-sense failed per near unanimity; actually, no boldface keep on the nominated sense. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:51, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

  By the way, the verbiage was introduced in diff on 23 January 2007. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:01, 21 September 2014 (UTC)