Talk:pójść

@Shumkichi Two pings in one day! How do you feel about terms like pójść sobie and radzić sobie? I feel conflicted. On one hand, we could potentially list them as reflexive, using dative. On the other, we could also list them as their own lemmas. I almost feel like they should be their own entries, personally. Vininn126 (talk) 12:55, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vininn126 In this context, such verbs aren't really reflexive because "sobie" or, even more informally, "se" are colloquial particles that are derived from the reflexive pronoun. So they may be morphologically considered reflexive but not semantically, as "sobie" is really just a particle with which such verbs form idioms. The particle doesn't really have any reflexive meaning and it's detached from the original context of the pronoun (e.g. "Pójdź do sklepu" and "Pójdź se do sklepu" mean roughly the same thing but the latter is very colloquial and possibly indicates either poor education of the speaker or, on the contrary, a conscious use of language in a humorous way; you could say that the function of the particle is to emphasise that the conversation you're having is rather informal). I sometimes use such constructions with my friends, even the "se" particle which, I think, originated as a regional form of "sobie" and was later introduced into the mainstream but I might be wrong. Anyway, I only use such idioms when I'm comfortable around the people I've got informal relationships with. I would feel weird if I were to use them at my uni, speaking to some professor who's 20 years older than me, or in any other professional setting. I don't know if they can be considered separate lemmas, though, and I know pl wiki classifies them as reflexive but as linguists I think we should be critical of every such classification. Shumkichi (talk) 13:08, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that "sobie" is not always a colloquial particle as it sometimes forms neutral idioms, such as "wyobrazić sobie" (to imagine), and thus could be considered truly reflexive. Shumkichi (talk) 13:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Shumkichi I didn't mean in that usage. I mean in the usage of "leave", as in "on zjadł kolację i poszedł sobie". Vininn126 (talk) 13:24, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vininn126 I think you could still replace it with just "poszedł" but I admit I would feel like something's missing after the verb. But it would certainly be grammatical with maybe a slightly different meaning. I don't know, it's probably safer to think of it as a reflexive verb then. I don't think it needs a separate entry. But maybe I'll read more on "sobie" to see if it can be considered a synonym of "się" in the sentence you quoted. Shumkichi (talk) 13:30, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Shumkichi So I think for now I'm going to list it as reflexive, using sobie. I agree that it's not THAT much different than poszedł in that context, but I think it's almost idiomatic enough to warrant inclusion, plus we're not constrained by things that other dictionaries are.