Talk:peanut butter and jelly

2016 deletion discussion

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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peanut butter and jelly

SoP, though it is common. ham and cheese, turkey and cheese, or even macaroni and potato (lol) could potentially be used the same way. I hear the first two all the time. Philmonte101 (talk) 09:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Additionally, added by a Wonderfool sock. Philmonte101 (talk) 09:09, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Wonderfool has often made good contributions, which is why his sockpuppets are no longer blocked on sight. I'm pretty sure that he has been contributing under his most recent sockpuppet, whatever that may be. DCDuring TALK 13:11, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Keep: PBJ/PB&J, always a sandwich. DCDuring TALK 10:18, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Keep per DCDuring. Benwing2 (talk) 13:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Delete. Not just a sandwich, also e.g. ice-cream flavour. It's just the two things. I knew a kid who liked ketchup and mustard sandwiches (sick bastard) but it was just "ketchup" + "and" + "mustard". Existence of abbreviations is no keeper argument either, and During knows this as he has pointed it out himself before! How two-faced. We have PTO but not please turn over. Equinox ◑ 14:01, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

The uses that are not a sandwich almost always are the noun used attributively to modify some hypernym: PB&J ice cream; PB&J cookie. Peanut butter and jelly alone almost always refers to the sandwich. DCDuring TALK 15:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't see what you are getting at. If you're saying that it's a noun meaning a sandwich (perhaps you can order "two peanut butter and jellies"? I have no idea, since I refuse to visit the US) then surely you can see that the challenged entry doesn't say that at all. If not, then what are you saying that is relevant? Equinox ◑ 17:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

These uses are a metonymic exploitations of PB&J, especially of the well-known flavor. I think they are supportive of an entry for peanut butter and jelly. BTW why not challenge mac and cheese AND macaroni and cheese, the former reduced form being evidence supportive of the idiomaticity of the latter. DCDuring TALK 14:36, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

• Keep as a set phrase. Also used to describe things which people are attuned to think go together naturally (compare fish and chips, meat and potatoes, bread and butter). bd2412 T 15:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

• We had a similar discussion recently didn't we? it was "man and wife", or "knife and fork", or something. Question was whether to include these things as entries simply because they tend to be listed in a certain order. I think not: Crystal has written about the natural ordering of adjectives ("a little green man", never "a green little man") and that's linguistically interesting but not really dictionary-able. Equinox ◑ 17:08, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

• It is clearly a set phrase when used to describe something other than actual peanut butter and jelly. bd2412 T 23:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

• Delete. For the record, I say "peanut butter and jam," so I'm not convinced it's even a set phrase. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 04:57, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

  The jam version seems like an alternative form or synonym. Perhaps regionally differentiated. DCDuring TALK 14:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

  Possibly, though I also say "peanut butter and honey." In my idiolect, it's entirely SOP, but I guess I can't speak for everyone. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 04:41, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

  It obviously started as SoP. When I was young I preferred cream cheese and jelly, which remains SoP IMO. I don't know what evidence would be definitive for this, which forces us to rely on voting and the non-definitive evidence we find. DCDuring TALK 13:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

• Keep as a set phrase. --Dmol (talk) 22:37, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
• Keep. Not SoP. This may be said differently in different dialects, but I created this entry upon the fact that it the term is used most of the time to refer to the sandwich. MackyBlue11 (talk) 04:55, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
• Keep as per creator. - Sonofcawdrey (talk) 18:56, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
• Keep per bd2412 and DCDuring. P Aculeius (talk) 00:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
• I've added multiple citations of "a peanut butter and jelly" and "peanut butter and jellies" referring to the sandwich, which definition seems to me to be not SoP. A different argument would need to be made for the uncountable sense. I'd be inclined to cover that with {{&lit|peanut butter|jelly}}. DCDuring TALK 00:33, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
• It appears to be an American term, not British, so maybe it should be marked as such. It's not a combination I would like to try, how about a Marmite and cheese sandwich? DonnanZ (talk) 12:49, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Kept. bd2412 T 12:30, 2 August 2016 (UTC)