Talk:pykar
Latest comment: 7 months ago by P. Sovjunk in topic RFV discussion: July–October 2023
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Rfv-sense: An ancient English fishing boat. Enappll (talk) 20:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
- Very un-English spelling for such thing. k before a back vowel is particularly odd. The final -ar looks Swedish ... but it would be a plural. And p- might be a mistake for wynn or thorn. I dont see any low-hanging fruit to pick, though ... words like thick and wick dont go back to spellings with -y-. I'll try to look for more information on this. —Soap— 03:24, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- I found this but its nothing to do with boats. Everything else seems to be about the well-attested word from colonial India. —Soap— 04:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- See the MED's entry on picard and picarde, which has sense [b] referring to a type of herring boat mentioned in the statutes of King Edward III of England. MED gives the spelling as "pyker", but 19th century sources like this and this use the "pykar" spelling. That means we're probably looking at a Middle English entry, not English. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- The spelling -ar varies fairly freely with -er even in the 16th century, as do i and y. Note the actual Middle English entries thikke and wikke do list forms in y @Soap. The actual normative form here is on the lines of picard though, as Chuck points out, which is well-attested in modern English although we don't have an entry; for modern English the OED also reports picard, pickard, pekart, picart, pichard, and they have an entry piker pointing to picard although it's not cited. That word is now historical rather than obsolete—there's plenty of historical literature using it—but the specific spelling pykar does not look attestable to me for modern English. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 10:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm sure that it's from Picard now, too. And that the word I found is already listed at piker#Middle_English, though I suppose it couldn't hurt to add one more variant spelling. But as for the boat word, should we list it as an alternate spelling of Middle English Picard (which we don't have a separate entry for yet), or did the boat sense break off into a new sense of its own with this as the dominant spelling? —Soap— 11:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- I've created a modern English entry (uncapitalised per the sources, picard), pykar could be added as an altform for a Middle English one. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 11:58, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm sure that it's from Picard now, too. And that the word I found is already listed at piker#Middle_English, though I suppose it couldn't hurt to add one more variant spelling. But as for the boat word, should we list it as an alternate spelling of Middle English Picard (which we don't have a separate entry for yet), or did the boat sense break off into a new sense of its own with this as the dominant spelling? —Soap— 11:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- The spelling -ar varies fairly freely with -er even in the 16th century, as do i and y. Note the actual Middle English entries thikke and wikke do list forms in y @Soap. The actual normative form here is on the lines of picard though, as Chuck points out, which is well-attested in modern English although we don't have an entry; for modern English the OED also reports picard, pickard, pekart, picart, pichard, and they have an entry piker pointing to picard although it's not cited. That word is now historical rather than obsolete—there's plenty of historical literature using it—but the specific spelling pykar does not look attestable to me for modern English. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 10:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- See the MED's entry on picard and picarde, which has sense [b] referring to a type of herring boat mentioned in the statutes of King Edward III of England. MED gives the spelling as "pyker", but 19th century sources like this and this use the "pykar" spelling. That means we're probably looking at a Middle English entry, not English. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- I found this but its nothing to do with boats. Everything else seems to be about the well-attested word from colonial India. —Soap— 04:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- RFV failed and removed sense P. Sovjunk (talk) 21:29, 14 October 2023 (UTC)