Talk:school shooting
Latest comment: 11 years ago by Msh210 in topic school shooting
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All I have to say is that when Wonderfool created it, his edit summary was SOP?, and I have to answer that with a yes. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:21, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, SOP and not a set phrase. Delete. — Actarus (Prince d'Euphor) 07:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
- Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
- I must admit it does look like a set phrase. Can it be expressed in any other way? ---> Tooironic (talk) 05:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- google books:"shooting at a school" for one. Doubtless others, too.—msh210℠ (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm. But tertiary education can be re-expressed as "education at the tertiary level", drunk and disorderly can be re-expressed as "disorderly and drunk", chemical reaction can be re-expressed as "reaction of chemicals" (all of those can be attested Google Books), yet I think most people would think of these as set phrases regardless. What's the difference here? ---> Tooironic (talk) 22:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- google books:"shooting at a school" for one. Doubtless others, too.—msh210℠ (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- That "tertiary education" means "(university-level or) higher education" is opaque, and the definition of drunk and disorderly" suggests that a person need not be disorderly to be "drunk and disorderly", which if true would make it idiomatic. In contrast, a "school shooting" is just a shooting at a school. "Chemical reaction" does seem SOP, but perhaps it has a subtly more precise meaning in chemistry than just "chemical" + "reaction"; I suppose that's for another RFD to decide.
- English does tend to prefer "noun + noun" compounds to "noun at/of noun" phrases for things like this, hence "school shooting" is more common than "shooting at school" and "metal chair" is more common than "chair of metal", but IMO that's a general element of grammar/syntax, not a sign that the noun compounds are idiomatic. Compare phrases like "my brother and I": they're set phrases to the same extent "school shooting" is or isn't, because it's less common and less felicitous to say "I and my brother", but that's because English has a general tendency to put the first person last in lists, it's not a sign that "my brother and I" deserves a dictionary entry. - -sche (discuss) 22:58, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- But isn't the term "school shooting" idiomatic in the sense that he has to be a violent scene for it to qualify as one? It wouldn't, for example, denote a school's shooting competition. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think it's a set phrase, so much as it's just the two simplest words to express the idea. You wouldn't call it a temple shooting because there's no temple involved. Also a shooting competition isn't called a shooting, see shooting. Shooting can either involve fatality or not. Our definition of "a shooting at a school" seems right as it can involve fatality or not, just the ones with zero fatalities get less press coverage. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:11, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Actually the entry at shooting includes the sense "the sport or activity of firing a gun", and that's the sense I was pointing to in my example. And just because an event does not cause fatalities does not mean it is considered not violent. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- But that's the uncountable sense of shooting, so anything containing 'a school shooting' or 'school shootings' rules out that sense, because clearly countable. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:19, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
- Actually the entry at shooting includes the sense "the sport or activity of firing a gun", and that's the sense I was pointing to in my example. And just because an event does not cause fatalities does not mean it is considered not violent. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think it's a set phrase, so much as it's just the two simplest words to express the idea. You wouldn't call it a temple shooting because there's no temple involved. Also a shooting competition isn't called a shooting, see shooting. Shooting can either involve fatality or not. Our definition of "a shooting at a school" seems right as it can involve fatality or not, just the ones with zero fatalities get less press coverage. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:11, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- But isn't the term "school shooting" idiomatic in the sense that he has to be a violent scene for it to qualify as one? It wouldn't, for example, denote a school's shooting competition. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Delete.—msh210℠ (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Delete. I can see mall shooting in Google Books too. Equinox ◑ 23:12, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- "synagogue shooting" only gets two valid Google Book hits, but "church shooting" and "mosque shooting" both get more than three each. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- I'm neutral on this entry but if the US doesn't do anything for the gun control, against those who advocate the right to keep and bear arms, then the term may become as common and idiomatic as mass murder. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Delete per Mglovesfun. Furius (talk) 10:04, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Deleted.—msh210℠ (talk) 07:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)