Talk:sunflower seed

RFD discussion: November–December 2023

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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sunflower seed

कालमैत्री (talk) 10:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

or it can be translation hub. कालमैत्री (talk) 10:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

To provide context for the request: it's being argued that this is a SOP. There was a rather heated discussion on the Discord server that began with whether we should make entries for translations of sunflower seed, which eventually evolved into whether this entry should exist at all. One argument presented for keeping it, as far as I understood it, was that you cannot deduce from the definitions on the pages seed and sunflower that sunflower seeds are eaten as a snack, used as bird feed, or in the manufacture of sunflower oil. I'm not exactly convinced by this — to me, this is not information that's necessary to understand that a sunflower seed is a sunflower seed, regardless of whether it's roasted or not. I don't imagine WT:FRIED applies, because unroasted sunflower seeds are also commonly referred to as sunflower seeds. Delete, unless it fulfills WT:COALMINE, in which case all I can do is shrug. Hythonia (talk) 10:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I would keep this. Not only a popular translation hub (I entered solsikkefrø years ago), it can be used in recipes (Google sunflower seed recipes), you shouldn't use sunflowers themselves in recipes (!), not to forget bird food.

There are many other types of seed listed under derived terms at seed; I'm not sure why this one was singled out. DonnanZ (talk) 18:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

"You shouldn't use sunflowers in recipes" is not a lexical argument. We do not add or remove words based on the edibility of the referent. Equinox ◑ 22:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Keep as THUB. It might also be a case of WT:JIFFY (or WT:COALMINE), but THUB is likely the strongest argument (and I don't have the energy to look into the others). There are already a few non-compound-word translations there too. AG202 (talk) 23:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Delete as SOP (unless a term falls into WT:COALMINE, of course). MedK1 (talk) 15:17, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@MedK1: Why did you add pumpkin seed below if it passes WT:COALMINE (pumpkinseed)? J3133 (talk) 10:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The original poster didn't mention WT:COALMINE or anything, so I thought it would be relevant. It's pretty much the same discussion, so this might also prevent the page from getting RFD'd later. MedK1 (talk) 14:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Keep as THUB, not for the Norwegian word (which is a transparent compound of the words for sunflower + seed) but for the Russian word and its loans. While we're here, could someone who knows Russian please clean up the Russian entry in the translation box? This, that and the other (talk) 09:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

The point about transparent compounds is that we editors can work them out, but a casual passive user may not be able to. We shouldn't forget them. DonnanZ (talk) 10:29, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

WT:THUB is more restrictive than you would perhaps prefer: a "closed compound that is a word-for-word translation of the English term" does not qualify. This, that and the other (talk) 00:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, the whole SoP argument is a murky and messy one. Would anyone RFD solsikkefrø, or Sunflower State, and I have a half-empty bottle of sunflower oil. In any case, with sunflowerseed this now complies with WT:COALMINE. DonnanZ (talk) 10:59, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

RFDing Sunflower State makes no sense as there's hardly any way for one to know it refers to Kansas specifically — I didn't know before clicking that link. ...Should we RFD sunflower oil? MedK1 (talk) 20:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Why? Just because I mentioned it? Are you RFD-happy? DonnanZ (talk) 09:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Donnanz I think the issue was that Sunflower State made no sense as an example. Theknightwho (talk) 09:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

It's still a derivative of sunflower, but a proper noun, and no one should contemplate deleting it. DonnanZ (talk) 10:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Donnanz That was never the issue. Theknightwho (talk) 10:15, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

sunflower oil meets THUB, but only barely: the Greek ("sun oil") and Chinese ("sunflower seed oil") seem to qualify. This, that and the other (talk) 10:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, loads of translations. The moral here is to not mention such terms in an RFD discussion, as someone seizes on them as RFD fodder. I never learn. DonnanZ (talk) 10:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Geez dude, it was a question. I didn't go around tagging it as RFD. Good to know the page meets THUB though. MedK1 (talk) 16:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@MedK1 Take no notice - DonnanZ takes RFD requests as some kind of personal attack. Theknightwho (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Theknightwho: Be careful, that is a personal attack, worse than being called a dude. DonnanZ (talk) 18:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Keep per COALMINE. — excarnateSojourner (talk · contrib) 17:53, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Denazz has struck the heading of this discussion without giving an explicit verdict. — excarnateSojourner (ta·co) 22:28, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

• Sorry, this is RFD pass per COALMINE, THUB and LEMMINGS. Denazz (talk) 11:17, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

pumpkin seed

Struck for the reason given by J3133. DonnanZ (talk) 15:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to strike sunflower seed as well. 2804:1B0:1900:9266:79CC:5FEB:7398:8022 21:46, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Nobody has created an entry for sunflowerseed yet. DonnanZ (talk) 12:01, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

@Donnanz: I have created it. J3133 (talk) 20:59, 26 November 2023 (UTC)