Talk:than

Homophones?

In which dialect are than and then homophones? Hippietrail 17:03, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

If they are not homophones, then why is that in more than 1% of the comments I read on the internet I notice the wrong one being used? Those are mistakes by people for who English is their mother language. For people speaking other languages it's obvious they are two different words that vaguely sound similar. Maybe we should coin a new term: similophones. Polyglot 20:13, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Please don't call them similophones. I forget the classical greek root for 'similar' but that is what should be used.

Replying to Polyglot:

Perhaps because both words usually carry little or no stress, making them both closer to /T@n/.

Or it could be an American thing. For a few years I've been noticing how the American pronunciation of "thanks" I hear on TV sounds more like "thenks" - maybe this is systematic? — Hippietrail 10:42, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I grew up without the distinction (or at least without a strong distinction). I also grew up without a distinction between "pin" and "pen". The general pattern is for an unstressed vowel preceding a nasal to become a "barred I". There's definitely a vowel shift (rotation?) between US and Australian (I'm only claiming a difference, not that one shifted from the other). E.g., "Adelaide" spoken as she was meant to be spoken sounds more like "Eddellide" to my ears. Wikipedia has lots of information on such differences see the list of regional dialects on w:English. -dmh 17:21, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A pin/pen merger might also add the problem, but Hippietrail is right — than and then wouldn't be homophones if they were stressed, but "than" is [I think] always unstressed, /ðən/ (IMHO closer to [ðɨn], with the [ɨ]-like unstressed vowel that occurs in other unstressed function words like "but" and "just"), and while "then" is generally stressed, when it isn't, it's homophonous to "than": the two sentences "I'd rather do this than that" and "I'd rather do this then that" can sound identical [though admittedly, usually you'd get a comma in writing and a pause in speech before "then"]. —Muke Tever 05:36, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This is plausible and probably accounts for much apparent homophony, but I believe that there are dialects where stressed than is pronounced with a barred I (thus making it identical to stressed then in such a dialect). I say this because I'm pretty sure I grew up with it, but by now I've got so many influences and overlays that I really can't say for sure. I'll keep an ear out.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I've been through the same rigamarole for than/then as for pen/pin: "Did you say "than" or "then"? I said "than" (heavy stress). You mean "than" like "rather than", or "then" like "this then that"? I meant "rather than" — didn't you hear it the first time? ... -dmh 06:07, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Usage Notes

Do we really need the usage notes in this article? Nobody says "You are a better swimmer than she." These stupid rules come from people who think Latin was renamed English. They are separate languages. Besides, should a dictionary not describe usage, not prescribe it? 89.242.245.57 23:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Some people come to find out how a word is used, and such a descriptive approach is the primary focus on Wiktionary. However, we would be remiss if we didn't alert people to the kinds of style issues found in formal writing. As long as the notes are clearly labeled as "prescriptive" in some way, the context should be clear. --EncycloPetey 23:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Difference between conjunction and preposition

I just need to get what is the difference between the conjunction than and the preposition than. Ian Streeter (talk) 23:24, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction

The usage notes section currently says "In formal grammar, than is not a preposition to govern the oblique case ... and when [it is] a preposition, [it governs] the oblique case. From the examples below, it seems that neither is true (or at least complete). --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 07:14, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

I think that sentence is wrong: Than functions as both conjunction and preposition; when it is used as a conjunction, it governs the nominative case, and when a preposition, the oblique case.

It tells us that in the first example, You are a better swimmer than she, than was a conjunction because it is followed by the nominative case, while in the second example, They like you more than (they like) her, than was a preposition because it governs the oblique case of her. That is totally wrong, as you can see by using a different conjunction, like in They like you and her. The case of her is governed by like, conjunctions never govern a case.

If than can be a preposition at all, does it govern the oblique case? Can you say We need more people than me (which would not represent *We need more people than we need me)? Definitely not *We need more people than I. Would it be a preposition at all, or a Correlative conjunction? --Androl (talk) 12:50, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

You are right that the conjunction form does not govern any case. As for the preposition form, in the sentence "He eats more food than me.", than can be interpreted either as a preposition or as a conjunction with nominal "me", similar to "Me and brother ate dinner." --WikiTiki89 19:49, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The woman providing the audio just speaks more quietly for the unstressed version. It's nowhere near [ðən]. --2.245.153.164 03:16, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

conjunction (U.S.) when

especially after inverted constructions to say when something happened Barely had she opened the door than the phone started to ring.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009 --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Used to introduce the second element after certain words indicating difference

He draws quite differently than she does.; anywhere else than at home --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:00, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Seemingly already covered. Equinox ◑ 23:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

except; other than

We had no choice than to return home. https://oed.com/oed2/00250272 --Backinstadiums (talk) 00:00, 27 June 2021 (UTC)