Talk:wooden language

Translation

If anyone has an english translation of Françoise Thom's La langue de bois, please share it. I've wanted to read this for some time but I don't know french. AP295 (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Derogatory?

@Equinox Not every "negative" adjective or noun is labeled "derogatory". I dislike that critical language should be made to seem like a slur, inappropriate, or somehow a faux pas. I won't remove it unless you agree, but I don't think it's a good idea to use this context label simply because something is critical. It doesn't mean anything more than what the reader would already understand reading the definition. Also, it relates to language itself and not per se the speaker or writer. Again, it's critical but not really "derogatory" in the sense of being disparaging or belittling. You wrote "it is pejorative: nobody would say "I used some great wooden language in my speech today" -- it's always negative". Nobody would write I used some great disorganized language in my speech today, yet "disorganized language" (ignoring the fact that it's SoP) would not be considered derogatory, nor does disorganized bear any such context label (at the time of writing, https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=disorganized&oldid=76227078), not even sense 2, which would clearly be a 'negative' statement about a person: Lacking skills for organizing one's affairs. Consider the usage notes for derogatory (at the time of writing https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=derogatory&oldid=75876157), "In common language, particularly used in the phrase “derogatory term”, where it is equivalent to less common pejorative, and in “derogatory statements”, equivalent to more casual offensive." You'd not call wooden language offensive or inappropriate. I disagree with the idea that "offensive" is an equivalent to derogatory, even in a rough, colloquial sense (statements can be offensive because they are derogatory, but frankly a dictionary has no business telling us what is or isn't offensive, despite that offensive is a context label here), but clearly neither apply in this case. The reader is misguided if they're made to think that this term is somehow offensive or inappropriate, which context labels like derogatory are rather strongly suggestive of. AP295 (talk) 20:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

More generally, I sense there's a broader effort (and I'm not necessarily saying this is your intent) to characterize dissent and critical commentary as inappropriate, unfashionable or abusive. It's a very disturbing trend and I see no reason to perpetuate it by prescribing context, e.g. by the misuse/overuse of context labels like derogatory, which are arguably appropriate in some cases, or offensive which seems inappropriate altogether. AP295 (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@AP295 The only reason why you want to remove the "derogatory" label is because it undermines your argument that "offensive" is always unnecessary, because this term is an example of a derogatory term that isn't offensive. Please stop trying to redefine terms to match your politically-motivated viewpoint. Theknightwho (talk) 02:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

I notice you haven't addressed any of my points but instead make a purely ad hominem argument. I must point out that people generally do this when they're wrong. Terribly sorry to say. I disagree with AGF as a rule and would not demand it of others, but I do ask that you actually address my points if you're going to make a counterargument. AP295 (talk) 02:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@AP295 I'll make sure to bookmark this for the next time you inevitably start ranting about conspiracies against you, given you apparently believe people only make such arguments when they're wrong. On an unrelated note, check out the fallacy fallacy. Theknightwho (talk) 03:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

"I'll get you next time, Gadget ... next time!" Really now... AP295 (talk) 03:47, 12 December 2023 (UTC)