Wiktionary talk:Kashmiri transliteration

Formatting

Please, God; someone fix the abomination I have wrought. I'm sure I formatted most of this thing wrong. Also may need some clarification on certain features of the transliteration. There seem to be a few options for certain sounds and I don't know what the preferred one should be. MrPritzel (talk) 00:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

OK. --Rishabhbhat (talk) 17:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Sharada Script

@Imranqazi90, Rishabhbhat, Sinonquoi There are diacritics in Unicode for representing consonant and vowel sounds of Kashmiri that are not present in Sanskrit as explained at:

https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2012/12124r-sharada-kashmiri-signs.pdf

https://www.unicode.org/wg2/docs/n4265.pdf

𑇊 111CA SHARADA SIGN NUKTA

𑇋 111CB SHARADA VOWEL MODIFIER MARK

𑇌 111CC SHARADA EXTRA SHORT VOWEL MARK

Should these diacritics be used when writing Kashmiri in Sharada script, and if so what would be the proper usage of these diacritics? Kutchkutch (talk) 04:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch These diacritics were used by Grierson in his book of Sharada script just as an attempt to be more accurate to Kashmiri peculiar sounds as Sharada script lacks it and thus is the reason why it got discarded throughout time period. That's the only instance where these diacritics were used likewise Grierson's modified attempt of Devanagari in Kashmiri Dictionary. They are not used at all in standard format of writing Kashmiri in Sharada script. Imranqazi90 (talk) 07:09, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Imranqazi90 Is there even any "standard format" for Sharada? Where is it detailed (i.e. Unicode characters to be used, etc.)? I would appreciate it if you could share it. If these signs reduce ambiguity in the scripts I see no harm in using them. --Rishabhbhat (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat Well from the manuscripts available online of Lal Vaakhs I have gone through (here is one for instance [[1]]) , I have not encountered these diacritics used. I have just seen them in Grierson's book. But if one want to use them then no problem but that's simply not how they used to write Kashmiri back then as modifiers were introduced by Grierson just like he did with Devanagari. Imranqazi90 (talk) 09:57, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat The above documents shared by Kutchkutch even says that these signs were introduced by Grierson in his works. Here also : https://unicode.org/L2/L2009/09074r-n3595-sharada.pdf Imranqazi90 (talk) 10:05, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Well, I am not planning to edit Sharada much, so I will let those who do decide it. But I do have one question, according to Wiktionary:Kashmiri_transliteration#Sharada_Script there are no separate diacritics for /ə/, /əː/, /ɨ/ and /ɨː/. How will these be indicated with the standard system? Just skipping the vowel? (Kind of beats the purpose of an abugida though) --Rishabhbhat (talk) 10:18, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat Yes /ə/, /əː/ are indicated as a simple /a/ and /aː/, /ɨ/ and /ɨː/ are skipped as no representation at all and by default indicated by /a/. Likewise /e/ is indicated by /eː/, /o/ by /oː/. That's why it became difficult throughout time space to write Kashmiri in Sharada as it didn't have specific vowels signs for our kashmiri peculiar vowel sounds. Imranqazi90 (talk) 10:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC)